Ep 009: Grace Rivera
A SHOT: So to start, can you describe this photo that we’re going to talk about?
GRACE RIVERA: Yeah, place-wise, it’s located in southeastern Oregon in the Alvord Desert. It was a project that I had collaborated with some local Portland artists a couple years ago. The shot itself is a man dressed in all red running through this blank landscape, and there’s a hazy mountain range in the background.
How did that come together? How did the collaboration come about?
It was somebody that I had worked with before, just for personal work: Demi Yoko and Kailah Armand. They had come to me, and they were like, “We wanna do this project,” like a fashion-oriented type of shoot, and we would drive down there and shoot these three different setups that were all in their own color story. So we did this all-red setup in a lot of different types of shots, all using the natural landscape there. They made all of the clothes themselves and concepted this and produced it. So it was really such a labor of love. We just went down there with a loose shot list in mind. It was really just meant to be something beautiful that we were having fun with that we could use for our own portfolios. And this shot has just been my favorite.
What do you like about working like that, jumping on board to a project that someone else has something they wanna be doing?
I like doing that. I’m a really collaborative artist, and I like bringing in different people’s perspectives and making one thing. I had absolutely no expectations or really an agenda. I was just going to make something fun. That’s kind of how I’ve always made images. I don’t put too much pressure on anything because I think when you start to do that, everything comes out really contrived, and it’s more fun when you can leave it open for discovery.
So what did you like about his location?
We just really liked the vastness of it. There are so many different way to interpret open space, and I’ve seen so many photographers go to this location and shoot a completely different thing. So we were really just excited about the opportunity to interpret it however we wanted and using the clothes they had made in juxtaposition with this really dry, open type of place. It felt otherworldly almost.
Did you go in with an idea of how you wanted to interpret it?
Yeah, loosely. I’d put together a mood board and just looked at it a few days before and was digesting some shots that we could potentially get. And we had all these props that we brought along. We had this whole big van full of stuff that we brought to play around with. So I did have a loose idea of what I wanted to get, but this shot in particular was completely spontaneous. We were just running around. It was about to rain, so we may have had to pack up and leave because when it rains on desert it can flash flood, I guess. So there was a bit of a time limit, and he was just running around, and I was capturing what he was doing.
So what’s your setup for when you’re taking a photo like this?
Pretty much just me and my camera. I didn’t have lights. We didn’t bring any sort of lighting equipment or grip. It was just natural light. We got there at around 9am, so we drove for 8 hours the night before, slept in the van an hour away from it in a campsite and then got up at 6am, steamed [the clothes], drove over there and just started shooting everything.
Was everyone with you, the models as well?
Yeah, it was Demi and Kailah, and then we had a female model, and her friend was helping us.
So is this one of the designers?
Yeah, him and Kailah were creative-directing it together, and he also was modeling and then designed the clothes.
What do you like about working in that way, where you’re just showing up with your camera?
I like it because it challenges me to just think on the spot. I tend to do better under pressure when I’m shooting. I don’t know. There’s something that I like about not having everything totally mapped out because I don’t want to get myself stuck in too… Like, I don’t want to pigeonhole myself into having a project come out a certain way because that level of spontaneity allows you to discover something that maybe you wouldn’t have seen if you were trying to stick to a shot list super strictly.
And also the weather was really favorable that day with light. We had this overcast, hazy light, but we still had a lot of sun coming through. And once we got there, I was like, “This place is so magical and ethereal, and it would be cool to pick up some of that in these images,” which were really intensely colored. All red is a really statement color. I liked that juxtaposition of the harshness of the wardrobe with this really soft, open atmosphere.
So how quickly do you take this photo?
It was one of those things where we had shot maybe for 30 minutes already. We were just kind of getting into it. So I was like, “Okay, let’s try to focus on some movement.” So I had him run around. I remember he was running super fast far away, and I was just tracking him, so I was just trying to figure out what exactly I wanted. It probably happened in two seconds, and then he was running toward me, and we got different types of jump shots.
I shoot a lot of portraiture. It’s very planned and staged. And I think that the shots I’m always just kind of experimenting with — like I’m maybe messing with my camera settings, like I’m just playing around and seeing what else I can get — is where I get those spontaneous moments because then I look at it after, and I’m like, “Oh, cool, I don’t even really know how I did that, but I’m really proud of this image.”
At this point, too — this was a few years ago — I felt really confident with my camera. It wasn’t so much not knowing a setting and just getting it right. It was more just I was playing around with depth and composition, and I hadn’t shot a lot of this type of stuff this far away. Things like that, I think, are what I leave up to spontaneity.
So what decisions did you have to make with regard to the fashion and the clothing in this photo?
I start really tight. Like, I see a lot of details. So I’ll start shooting an outfit and be like, “Okay, I like how this creates a graphic moment in an image, and there’s sky, so I’m really seeing color and shape first and foremost. Then I punch out, and he’s got really long legs, and it’s all red, so there are just these lines that I can start to create and organize in a frame. And then, with something like this that was more of an action kind of running shot, I just liked how tiny he looked in this huge landscape. It was a cool way, in my head, for me to make sense of where we were.
There are several body details that I love in this image. There’s the heel of the foot that’s just barely skimming the surface of the ground. There are the fingers in his hand pointed out giving this feeling of looseness. And all these details of his body kind of create a balance that’s throughout this image. But those are all things that maybe he’s doing himself. How have you looked to create balance in this image outside of the element that you caught in his stride?
Where he’s actually placed is super important because obviously he’s directly in the middle of the frame. But even the way that the horizon line cuts just right under his shoulder there, and then the highest mountaintop is kind of shadowing the shape of his head… That plays a pretty important role here because if he were in an little bit closer to me, more so in the foreground, you would lose the depth. I like how the landscape behind him is a part of his… It really draws your eye into his body position.
How important is that balance?
I think it’s the most important thing. The composition is first and foremost what makes or breaks an image for me. And I just really enjoy looking at this. Just the placement of him, right in the middle. You can feel that he’s distant from me, but there’s also a lot of distance behind him. I look at it, and my eye keeps running around it. I honestly think if he was in any other position, I wouldn’t like it as much.
What do you like about the scale of this image?
It’s funny because I don’t shoot this distance usually. I’m so much more comfortable right here. Portraits are my thing, and I love people’s facial expressions. And I think there’s something about this that it feels so far away. It’s almost anonymous, like he’s barely recognizable. And I like that there’s still this level of intimacy there. I still feel like I know him and I can relate to him and this feeling he’s having while running through this landscape. The fact that it is further away from how I normally shoot just makes it feel more special to me.
How does something like this hold someone’s attention? I’m thinking specifically about how we view images now. A lot of people will see it on Instagram. So how does an image like that hold attention on something that’s a small as an Instagram screen.
It’s interesting because I think… I’ve printed this photo a few times at maybe 11x14 [inches], and even having the tactility of that in my hands, I’m like, “Okay this still feels interesting to me.” And ideally, I’d love for it to be blown up really big, like 4x5 feet, framed in a gallery or something. But for it to be living on the Internet the way that images do now, the emptiness of it is something that draws people in to it. And it’s so random. Like, why is he wearing this outfit? Why is he running through this desert? It’s sort of like you want to make sense of it in a way. And the fact that it is so simple and graphic is a way for it to stand out on a platform like Instagram. If you’re just kind of scrolling through, I think things tend to get really crowded. You don’t take a breath most of the time when you’re just scrolling incessantly. So that aspect of it makes it feel like it’s worth spending a little bit more time on.
Do you think of this photo as being loud?
Yeah, in a certain way it is, even just from his positioning. He’s kind of creating this X shape, and the outfit is quite intense. He’s wearing this jacket that has no sleeves, but then he has these forearm gloves on, and then the fishnets over these white Dr. Martens. It is a very loud look, and he’s doing an action that isn’t necessarily quiet either. Like, he’s not just standing there looking docile at the camera, like very fashion-esque. So yeah, I think in that way... But I don’t think people look at it and hear noise. I think it’s very quiet in terms of color and composition, but if you really dissect what he’s doing and what he’s wearing, it might be a little bit different.
So let’s talk a bit about color because I think it’s very applicable to this image. One of the things that I really love about your work is how much you consider color not just in what you shoot but also in how you present what you shoot. I think photographers usually like to present their work on white or black. But can you talk a bit about how you have decided to show your work on your Web site because I think it’s really cool.
Yeah, it’s interesting because I just finished my Web site redesign this summer. And I think that color is one of the most important things in my work. What I see first when I’m shooting is color and composition together and how that informs both of those things. And displaying my work in the way that I have on my site is this intentional nod to how I’m seeing color in the world and with the images themselves, in conversation with each other. I’m trying to thread a theme through everything, and color is one way to do that. And I think it’s just fun. It’s playful. I’m not trying to be super original or anything. There are some photographers that do this. And I’m just really drawn to the way that color makes us feel. Especially in a time of a lot of uncertainty, color is a happy thing. And it can come with a lot of different feelings for people, and I like how that is a storytelling element.
We should quickly explain what we’re talking about here. So on your Web site not only do your images appear on a color gradient that shifts as you scroll, but you also give people the ability to sort all of your work based on color using the themes red, blue, green, earthy, black and white, purple, pink and warm, in addition to the more standard categories you usually see like fashion, beauty, commissions, etcetera. The effect of looking at your work based on a single color theme is, I think, really beautiful, and it helped me make a lot of sense of your intention that you have with your photography. So I’m curious, how do you approach looking at your work in this way?
I like to print my work out. My process with that is I print everything out, and I sort it by color because I just want to see where my eye is going in each image, color-wise. And usually there’s a main color. There is the rule of thirds. But I think I see color in a very triangle type of way, and I’m usually using two or three in my images. I shoot a lot of monochromatic stuff. And I just sort of started developing that throughout the past few years, and that’s just sort of how I’ll categorize it. Then, in putting my site together this summer, I was like, “Okay, this could be kind of a fun tool for people that know my work more from the color end of things.” You know, anybody: art directors, photographers, producers, they sort of remember certain images, and I think it’s easy to remember a red or a blue. So then when you’re going back to look at that photographer’s work, you’re like, “I really wanna find this one image. It had red in it.” And so what a fun tool to use to streamline that process.
And I think one of the fun things about it, too, is that you really realize each of those colors has a mood, and outside of the content of the image of whether it’s a beauty story or a person or a portrait or whatever, you’re using that color to say something.
Yeah, exactly. And I think I don’t always know what I’m saying with it. I go into some projects having a super-clear idea and a pointed concept, and that’s really what I’m going after, and then other times I go into things more open, and I’m like, “Let’s see what comes out of it.” And with this image, that was the case. It’s not the case with every single thing, but I think each different color that you use really does create a narrative. And I like that I can sort of start to develop that world.
So what do you like about working in that way?
When I’m doing casting, I usually work off of that first, so I’m like, “Okay, this person has something kind of unique about them that I see in a certain way and I want to interpret that visually,” and then I go to color and like, “Okay, how can I… Do I want to use red?” And I have to kind of bounce off my team as well and what my wardrobe stylist is bringing to the table because more often than not there’s styling involved. I don’t do as much with less. I feel like I always have some sort of set up. And color is just like… I kind of just make a game-time decision and then I go from there, and I figure out what lighting I want. Eventually over time, things become a little more consistent and your style really solidifies, which is where I feel like I’m at now. I feel like I’ve gotten to a point where “Okay, this is what I know I’m doing,” and I can veer myself down that path.
Where can you see that approach in this image?
I think with the red. The way that I would categorize this image also is red, even though the majority of it is this creamy, faded light-blue almost. It just really sticks out and is a very bold color. And [red is] what you see first, and then everything else around it is part of it.
What decisions did you have to make with specifically the parts of this image that aren’t red?
I’ve edited it a few different times, so this is kind of its final where I’ve gotten to. Originally I had a lot more blue in there, and then when I went back, I brought this warmth into the highlights where I was editing. I do tend to do that generally. Like, I shoot very warm. Even when I’m shooting I have color temperature up at like 6200 to 6500 [kelvin] most times just because I like having that tone. So I think the way I was editing it in its most recent version was considering the warmth of the sky and kind of making it feel like this comfortable environment that was really subdued in comparison to this bold red kind of look.
When you’re shooting something that’s so color specific, and not necessarily with this image, but do you find that your tastes change?
Yeah, definitely. I think with this year, having gotten signed [with a photo agency] I was presented with this opportunity to revisit all of my work and really consider how it feels as a whole body of work that I can present to the world. And a lot of retouching was involved there because I was like, “Okay, let me try and find this unifying tone that feels applicable to everything, but each image can still stand alone.” I’ve been developing this more consistent color palette that I’m trying to refine and not have everything be so on its own. So in revisiting this image, I don’t think I retouched this one this year, but it was just at this point, and I was like, “Okay, this feels like a good north star for a lot of the tones in my other image,” so I just tried to keep everything in mind. The printouts help because it helps me see the direction that I’m going and how I can steer myself.
What does the color red mean to you?
Red is my favorite color weirdly. But red is kind of this chaotic energy that I’m always really drawn to. Red means something to everyone. It’s a very universal color. It can mean something violent. Or it could mean something very loving. It’s a very warm color. So I think it really does take on a different meaning for everyone. For me, I think it’s just that it really draws you in. It’s such a striking color. Anybody can look good wearing it, and it’s quite the statement. It’s interesting because, for me with color, I wear mostly black or white. Even my apartment is very neutral. But then my work, I’m pushing it into this realm of bold loudness but in a very muted way. And red has been a really fun color for me to explore in my work over the last 10 years that I’ve been taking pictures, professionally or not. I think in this photo it’s at least a successful outcome of working with this color.
So what do you think we can learn about you from this photo?
Color is a good way for me to talk about what I’m doing with my work because I do use it as a vehicle to tell different stories. And a lot of really what I’m trying to talk about now — and I’m still very early in my career, and I’m really still trying to figure out exactly what I’m saying — but the things that I really care about freedom of expression and allowing ourselves to be celebrated no matter what color you are, what body type you have, your gender. I’m really trying to tell these stories and be a vehicle for people that haven't been able to speak up as much about these things and who’ve been oppressed without tokenizing or putting labels on anything. I want to make images that really celebrate those differences, whatever they are, and allow people to feel seen and heard.
Does anything about this photo feel familiar?
In what way? Like to the past, or…?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, I think for me, and I’m not sure this reads to everybody, but this photo represents a time in my life where I was in a transition between working full time at an advertising agency and trying to figure out what my voice was and what I really wanted to focus on with photography. I was in a place where I was starting to get a lot of different opportunities. And I wanted to do something in my last few weeks living in Oregon before I moved to New York that felt really explorative and open, and I was collaborating with people that I had built a relationship with there. And it represents this period of time where I was right in between leaving my job and starting a new chapter in my career and making the leap to go freelance. And these photos have lasted this long, even though I had made them in a time where I was just figuring things out. So to me, it means a lot.
I think it’s interesting how a lot of times we do our best work when we have to.
Yeah, definitely. This is a result of that because I was leaving this place that I had lived in for three years, and I had made all these relationships, and I was in a very creative circle. So I was like, “I really want to take advantage while I’m here and work with these people that I admire and want to make things with before I start over completely and have to build that back up.” I’ve been now in New York for almost three years, so just as long as I was there, and it’s taken me this long to develop the same kinds of relationships where I feel confident making stuff with people and knowing it’ll come out the way that I hope for.
What about this photo feels like a Grace Rivera photo?
I think my work is really sculptural in a way. Like, I see people in the fame… I feel like there’s a way to depict them that feels really heroic and celebrated. At least in this image, he feels caught in this perfectly sculptural moment that you just kinda want to keep looking at and studying. And that is really something that I try to do with my portraiture, even with something that’s tighter in; you know, it’s just your face. How much can you really do there? But I really think using light and color is a way to tie all of those things in. And this feels like one of those images where that all comes together for me.
What do you think Grace 10 years ago would have to say about this photo?
I think she’d be pretty impressed. She was like taking pictures of flowers. I was back on Deviant Art. That’s how I would look at pictures. And Flickr. And Tumblr. And there were so many things I would just save and make mood boards and stuff. I was just taking photos of my friends at photo club or something.
Where do you find your inspiration now?
Oh, everywhere. I mean, Instagram and Pinterest and all of those social-media platforms, for sure. I worked as an image researcher. I worked at Wieden + Kennedy right out of college. So my role was to just look at images all day everyday. So I would look on Ignant, and It’s Nice That and all these blog platforms that were featuring artists, and then it just sort of opens a whole black hole of other people that you find. Having done that role gave me a lot of skills to research and understand how to look on the Internet for things you like, things you don’t like, and understand why you feel that way about them.
What have you learned that has given you the instinct to take this photo specifically?
Maybe I’ve repeated myself here with this but the whole spontaneity thing. I’ve taught myself to just not get so stressed out about getting a certain shot. Like, you know, I’ll make mood boards, and then I would leave a shoot being like, “Ugh, I didn’t get this one shot that I really wanted to get.” And that sort of takes the fun out of it sometimes. And with something like this that happened as sort of a happy accident, those are the most fun for me to work with because it just wasn’t something I was expecting to get. So when I go into something with less expectations, I find that I have an easier time spotting those moments rather than being so contrived about it because even with super-tight beauty portraits that I’ll do, there’s not much variation you can get. It’s a face. And if you’re this close, it kind of is what it is. But you can play around with light and mess with a filter, and you are leaving yourself open to discovering a completely new aesthetic or technique that you wouldn’t have known otherwise. And I’ve been doing that a lot in the studio lately. There’s not much I can do with Covid going on. You’re confined to these studio shoots maybe, or you’re outside, and you’ve got one person to work with and just kind of have to make the work. And I think I’ve started to really try and push myself there, being like, “What can I do with a white background, and how can I do it differently than I did the last time?” So I think just leaving yourself open to sort of discover something new.
So to close the conversation, what’s something unrelated to photography that’s been feeding you creatively lately?
Oh, interior design. I just moved into my own place in October. That’s been a longtime goal of mine, to be able to do that. For as insane as this year has been, I’ve experienced a lot of growth personally and professionally. So I’m also just really obsessed with interior design and furniture and how you can make a space feel like a home, utilizing different objects. It brings me a lot of joy. I’m spending way too much money acquiring things that I’ve always wanted. But it’s been a fun way to distract myself from everything going on.
What’s the main project right now?
Kind of my home office actually. I’ve settled my bedroom area for the most part, and then my living room is getting there. And I think the biggest part about me moving in on my own, into my own place, was having enough space for my work flow because I’m always at my computer. So I’m trying to really maximize it, make it feel like a place where I can feel inspired. I just installed this grid that I can hang up physical prints and change them out. So that’s something I’m trying to really perfect.
Interviewed on December 11, 2020.
(This transcript has been edited for brevity.)
Links:
Grace Rivera